Biden refused Communion in Florence, SC

[Stephen Fox]

[Sandy]

I have a real problem with any clergy making the decision to withhold communion from anyone. It's not their call. That's a personal decision between the individual and God.

Perhaps priests should start withholding communion from politicians who favor ownership of weapons of war designed and built to murder people.

[Lou]

[Sandy]

I understand that the Catholic church views communion as sacramental and as a "dispensing of grace" and believes the church, which is the clergy by their definition, holds the authority and power to determine who receives salvation and who does not. In fact, the Catholic church also denies communion to those who practice birth control and technically, to anyone they can identify openly as being in sin, by their definition. Those are issues which they allow most people to resolve by showing up at confession, getting a priest's blessing and doing pennance by fingering some beads and uttering words.

Biden has, on several occasions, provided personal insights into his view on abortion. Like most American Catholics, he separates his personal convictions and beliefs from a secular perspective and believes that legislation which ventures into areas of personal morality and disagreement over basic principles that are theological in nature, such as when human life actually begins, are only accepted by personal conviction, not legal restriction. That's a perspective shared by most Catholics in this country who have run for office, largely because of the perception of their opponents that they would be more loyal to the Vatican than to the United States.

Being refused communion because of his political position will be seen by a majority of American voters as narrow minded bigotry on the part of the church and will benefit Biden more than it will hurt him politically. So do you think he might have deliberately chosen to receive communion in South Carolina when the cameras were watching, knowing that a priest would probably refuse because of the diocese policy?

[Lou]

[Rvaughn]

I don't know their thoughts, but it seems like there are enough advisers in place and money spent on campaigns that they would have known about the diocesan policy.

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

Fascinating new Off Broadway play featured on NPR On Point Monday. You can listen online and also google the New Yorker Review.

Catholics of the National Review stripe, well educated gather at a Homecoming of a Catholic university in Wyoming and the Conversation at a small gathering around the fire after the meal is intense.

Intriguing discussion of the concept of "Particularity" in addition to this Trump moment.

[Tim Bonney]

It is not uncommon for the Catholic Church to withhold communion from dissenters. It is one of the areas I find Roman Catholic doctrine to be highly objectionable. Both Catholics and Methodists believe that persons who receive the sacraments receive the grace of God. The very idea of withholding God's grace from anyone is highly disturbing to me. I wouldn't be a member of or serve in a denomination that didn't believe in an open table.

[Haruo]

[Tim Bonney]

[Rvaughn]

[Haruo]

[Rvaughn]

I don't know any specifics about that, as far as whether they jumped through any hoops or not. I know the couple had grown children (who are still Catholics) when they divorced. Would an annulment "delegitimize" these children? The husband is now married to a Methodist and goes to a Methodist Church, but he may just be a Catholic going to a Methodist Church rather than a Methodist. The wife is definitely still Catholic.

Last year we went to a Christmas program at a Catholic school. They gave communion. Folks were told if they didn't want to take it to cross their arms when they walked by. (I didn't go by, I stayed in my seat.) To me that seemed like pretty much anybody who went up could get the communion if they wanted it. But I'm a little hard of hearing and may not have understood the logistics of it all.

[KeithE]

Most years we go to a Christmas Cantata on Christmas Eve at Good Shepard Catholic Church. My daughter’s mother-in-law (Micki) conducts it and it is really excellent with choir singing, congregational singing, an Orchestra and a Communion. We are told up front by Micki that “unfortunately” we are not allowed to take the Communion offered. We do not feel slighted in the slightest and feel fully welcomed.

My daughter who occasionally attends that Catholic church can take communion because she has taken the class in Catholicism (and she believes that makes her a member) while still being a member at our Baptist church (albeit banned by the local association).

Like Biden she favors a mother's choice to have an abortion - just verified all this with her. Biden is clearly a more devout, attending Catholic than my daughter. He is just being called out as a political stunt and/or face saving.

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Haruo]

[Stephen Fox]

Listen closely to this NPR On the Media segment of yesterday
https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/ot ... eral-right

[Stephen Fox]

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-poli ... R8PGmZYC00

Putting things in perspective for the struggle for the soul of America in Trumpland.

[Tim Bonney]

One of the things that occurred to me from the original post is that but certainly isn't used to being refused communion or he'd not have gone forward to receive. How much of refusing him communion was a publicity ploy by the priest?