Time To Pull The Plug?????? What Say YE???

[Gene Scarborough]

ED---

Us Southerners would appreciate you Yankees keeping your bad weather to yourselves! Last night another Noreaster came through here depositing some 6" of snow on the Outer Banks---which is totally RARE! However, God is doing us a favor by sending it right up the East Coast to points North and Midwest! Behind is left cold air and the possibility of more snow or whatever the middle of next week. What a wierd winter we are having. I"m going to blame it on the Artic and Jet Stream putting Russian and Arctic air over our heads---thank God I don't live in Florida with no insulation nor heating capable of offsetting the cold. Get ready to pay a high price for Orange Juice and fresh vegetables in the near future!!!!

[Haruo]

I'm not SBC and I'm not CBF, but I think the answer is no, you can't, because you're not formally connected. If you mean should CBF exclude from its fellowship churches that choose to identify themselves as Southern Baptist or that choose to send some of their mission offerings to SBC mission agencies, then I think that would do grievous damage to the "Cooperative" nature of the CBF, and would start it down the road of exclusionary practices that is one of the less attractive hallmarks of the SBC.

If you mean, should CBF make it clear that it is not affiliated with the SBC, although individuals and congregations may relate to both, then yes, I think that is a good thing to do.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Tim Bonney]

I've found this thread confusing. Sure, in the UMC where I'm serving now the denomination decides who they are or aren't affiliated with. That is the nature of episcopal governance. However CBF churches each decides church their affiliation. The only way that CBF churches can be removed form the SBC is for each of them to do it themselves individually. Have grown up in a now CBF church I never had any thought that the CBF itself was affiliated with the SBC.

[Haruo]

[Gene Scarborough]

From day 1 it is my understanding that CBF is not in the business of EXCLUDING anyone---rather offering a place of FELLOWSHIP to any who wished to join their cause. In CBF was found a new home for those being excluded from the SBC. Keith Parks was shut out of the SBC, but found a new home with CBF. Many others did as well.

Cecil Sherman and some others who founded CBF did it because they, too, had been excluded from the exclusive ranks of the SBC who now run it without question. Sherman was a visionary who dealt directly with Patterson / Rogers / Pressler / et al who claimed the Bible was "inerrant." When logical information was presented at the great inerrancy conference at Ridgecrest, it became apparant that the issue was not the nature of the Bible, but rather those whose egos required them to control others participating in the SBC.

After those meetings Sherman, et al concluded we needed a place to exercise freedom and autonomy rather than lock-step conformity. He knew well the lack of ethics in charges made against him and many SBC professors at Seminaries. Their dilemma was what to do with the many SBC church members and Pastors who had promoted the Cooperative Program so strongly that their consciences and sense of fear kept them from speaking as plainly as Sherman was prone to do. Their retirement programs were at risk as well as peace in the local church where members assumed "if it was SBC it was from God and the Great Commission."

Now it has become more and more clear we have the opportunity to be Baptists in the mold of our founding fathers---whose positions are constantly now being redacted to fit the CR mold---and "prove" them to be "right" after all.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Mrs Haruo]

Ed- you ask about racetracks. I haven't been to Emerald Downs either, as much as I love anything "Horsey". Our 10 year high school class reunion was held at the old Longacres race track, and with two little ones to feed back then I couldn't afford to place any bets even if I was a betting woman. I went with an old school chum who was working for the county Humane Society, and she said she felt strange being up in the stands instead of down in the barns inspecting conditions for the horses. We had fun picking our favorites, and it was a good thing I didn't place any bets-- all my favorites lost. My favorite equine spectator activity is the 10 horse hitch demonstrations at the Western Washington State Fair in Puyallup. Being I helped Daddy train shetlands when I was a girl, I get a kick out of the team of shiny black shetlands pulling the freight wagon. The big teams of draft horses are impressive, particularly the Clydesdales with feet as big as pie plates, but the Shetlands make up for it in attitude.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed--

Great observations on CBF!!! I appreciate your view. Cecil Sherman in his last major address here in NC before his death, warned of the danger that we become "just another denomination." I was with a VERY conservative friend I pursuaded to attend and "see for himself." He thought he knew the way to the church and we got totally lost in the hills and hollers of Winston-Salem. I assume the NCCBF has a tape or manuscript, but I have not obtained it. Cecil was wary of any group self-promoting to the point they lost sight of our missionary goal and cooperation with diversity.

My Mother lives in Atlanta suburbs near Stone Mountain. She is basically a follower and in her 90's. Years ago after daddy died she pretty much became content with her retirement apartment and just going to the church where he had been Interim at a tough time of trouble. Daddy brought the church around, but it has gone Conservative on the assumption "nothing has changed" and "we will continue to go after SBC-traditional candidates." Her afinity for her samo-samo pathway is not open to my input. I found out quickly when I tried to discuss it with her that her ears were not open. She had a good SBC journey and has no clue to the real changes of the last 40 years. Better to just shut up!!!

The Smoke Rise Baptist church is closer to where she lives. It is now totally CBF. It has many HMB retirees who were their friends as daddy worked with the HMB. If she had taken my advice to visit there some, I think she would be aware of the difference. Still she perferrs her comfortable little nest over any change these days. We both will likely be there one day = comfort over critical thinking!!! A nice man from her church picks her up each Sunday and their Conservative SBC Pastor has not foolishly criticized WMU from the pulpit. That would get her dander up enough to consider what I have said, but avoid now.

[Gene Scarborough]

A great blogger, FBCJaxwatchdog, has a great over-all look at things SBC mega. This general look has in it some videos worth considering as we consider whether CBF needs to make itself more publicly separate from the SBC.

Check out the radio clip on mega church Easter + the pastor's take on tithing. It is about 3 screens down from the top.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed--

There was a book some years ago entitled, "When Religion Gets Sick." I see the videos and reports from FBC Jax Watchdog as an attempt to laugh rather than to cry!

They are productions which reflect the lack of respect by the general public for this kind of religion of the mega.

If you should get the USA Today religious articles and commentary, as I do, most comments are about 80-90% scoffing at these kinds of antics. The public is far from impressed these days. Religion has been turned into a circus filled with clown acts.

We just somehow need to let people know you can be religious and still be about ministry / intelligence / cooperation with other groups who have not deserted a lifestyle akin to the Christ we claim as Lord and Saviour!

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

[KeithE]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed--

Best I can tell we are both saying about the same thing except for slight differences:

(1) You contend that people already see the difference / I contend that, in NC, that difference is no where near as obvious to the average church members. I stand by my contenton.

(2) You contend I am still angry at the SBC and should "just move on" / I contend that the SBC is nothing more than a ressurection of the Pharisees and we all must recognize that so that we can move on---as I have long ago.

What should be a grave concern to us both is that now the SBC is trying to redact Baptist History to "prove" they are right and we are wrong. In the face of such attempts I think it is clearly time to make a clear break and let more people know we are trying to be authentic to Jesus and his ways----clearly different from that of the Pharisees who precipitated his death on the cross.

If others are ecouraging you to be their spokesperson, then I invite them to join this post with their views. It doesn't need to be so much a discussion beween us---although others have joined the dialogue and I value their input.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

[Tim Bonney]